What you’ll learn from this episode
Highlights from the interview
[04:18] – How to shift from “I don’t know how to make money online” to “I’m making a 5-digit income through Facebook marketing”
[10:51] – How Andrew made $30k in a weekend in his 3000 sq ft gym
[14:08] – The real problem with juggling in-person and online fitness training
[24:12] – The No.1 mistake the fitness industry is doing now
[27:20] – How he sets up his training programs to work as a sales funnel
About our Guest
Our guest today is Andrew Read, located in Australia. He’s a veteran personal trainer, author, lecturer for a functional movement system and an ironman triathlete.
However today, I’m interviewing him about his successful online fitness business. We’re breaking up his in-depth interview where he shares all of his secrets into three parts.
The first part is gonna be about his physical gym, his success and his struggles as he tries to make it work. In addition, we go into how he’s making $250,000 gross sales online with no employees with an average of 50 clients per month.
In the second and third parts of this interview that we’ll release in the next two episodes, Andrew will go into more depth how he sets up his programs for accountability, how he does his training programs so it doesn’t take him that much time, how he still addresses fitness, what types of apps he uses and the super innovative way he does his fitness challenge to get all of his challengers super psyched and feeling like they’re part of a huge community, even though they’re all online in different parts of the world.
Edited transcription of Fitness Business Secrets Podcast, Episode 38
How Andrew started his career in the fitness world
Kristy: So, we’re here with Andrew Read. He was so kind to get up early, talk to us from Australia. And he’s going to tell us all about how to make it in the fitness world and the personal training world. And his story hasn’t been so easy.
Andrew, how are you doing today? My first question is, how did you get started? What was your transition from offline to online? What was that about?
Andrew: Okay. So I’ve been training people for 28 years. So, I’ve been doing this a long time, obviously that starts with face-to-face back in the dinosaur days.
And, you know, there were no chain gyms in Australia at the time and all that kind of stuff. And so really just do personal training. And about two and a half years ago, I had been struggling trying to run my gym and do some online stuff. I’ve been writing a lot of articles and the online component was growing, but I hadn’t really ever figured out a way to make any decent money from it.
How to shift from “I don’t know how to make money online” to “I’m making a 5-digit income through Facebook marketing”
[04:18] Kristy: Can I ask you when you said you were working, sorry to interrupt, because I’m really curious. I mean just opening a gym is hard. And a lot of people’s end dream is to open their own gym, right?
So, how long did you have that before you started to look for online prospects?
Andrew: I think the total was about 10 years. Oh, Yeah, because early internet marketing said that you had to become an authority and the easiest way to do that was to write articles. And so if you Google me plus fitness, you will find over 500 articles online, primarily on a website called Breaking Muscle.
It’s quite a high ranking website. It’s really helpful for me. But I wrote at one point, I was writing two or three times a week for about a year straight, a ton of content on there. And then you add in some other websites and some podcasts and things like that there’s, you know, like a reasonable amount of information on there, but I really enjoyed the online stuff and I really liked that opportunity to work with people from all over the world.
So I’ve got customers right now. I’ve got a guy in Portugal, I’ve got a guy in Ireland. I’ve got three guys in Alaska. I have a guy in New York, but technically he lives in Spain. It’s just that he got caught in New York and can’t leave now, he’s trying to get back to Spain. And I’ve got people all around Australia.
That opportunity doesn’t exist when you’re training people in person. And so the thing with the gym was expenses were going up and, you know, the gym was really struggling. And I just got to this point where I was really at a loss for what to do with it.
My business coach at the time said, “Look, you know, you’ve been fooling around online for a while, like kind of flirting with it. You need to pull the trigger and actually sell something or it’s time to quit it completely and focus a hundred percent on the gym.”
He’s already told me what to do, he said, “I want you to make like a three or four minute video. It’s going to explain what’s in the program. It’s going to explain, you know, how to sign up and buy.”
See, I had created a free Facebook group. I had about 600 guys in it at the time, and I put this video in the group. So it’s a free video, not a paid ad or anything like that. I put it in the group, and I’ve got 80 leads overnight.
I had created a free Facebook group. I had about 600 guys in it at the time, and I put this video in the group. So it’s a free video, not a paid ad or anything like that. I put it in the group, and I’ve got 80 leads overnight.
I’ve never done anything that’s had this many leads coming in a 24 hour period. Yeah. So those 80 leads one night. So this didn’t run over time. 80 leads in one night. And so again, that’s the power of international online businesses. You know, people were seeing it in New York as they woke up and people were seeing it in England and I was asleep and I was getting traffic, right?
But I was a little bit intimidated and I said, what do I do? He said, you need to make another video now that says, “Okay guys, you’ve kind of overwhelmed me a little bit, which is awesome. I’ll get to all of you. It’s just going to take me a little bit of time.”
And so I made the second video, which was an hour to like 11 o’clock at night well, after my bedtime. And I went to bed, I woke up and I started figuring out how the hell I was going to contact all these people. And so I set up just calling through Facebook the next day and over two weeks. I mean 40 hours of calls a week for two weeks and I closed 35 of those guys in the thousand dollars range.
So, I went from this “I don’t know how to make money online” to “I made $35,000 in my first debit sales drive.”
And at that point I went, “Okay, so I don’t need the gym.” Yeah. I rang the real estate agent literally two days later and said, “Okay, so I’m letting you know over the phone. I’ll put it in writing obviously, but I’m not exercising my option to extend my lease. And we’ll be gone on this date at this time. I’ll bring the case back, blah, blah, blah.
How your camera phone helps you increase your leads and sales
Kristy: Yeah. That sounds amazing. And, well, it’s nice that you already had a Facebook group with 600 people because that’s pretty good. What was it about this video that you felt made it so powerful?
Andrew: It’s just me and there are a lot of things that I’m not, I’m not terribly fast, or strong, or good-looking or, you know what I mean? Like, I’m not like an Instagram fitness kind of person. But what I am is really genuine, no frills. And you know, so when I’m excited, I’m genuinely excited; when I’m pissed off, I’m genuinely pissed off.
And so I write for me basically, and guys in my age group react really well to that because what happens is most of them have come from a background like most people in fitness, unsuccessful, unsuccessful, unsuccessful, just trying everything being misled by hype and, and let’s face it, marketing lies for supplements and different things.
I’m never, ever someone’s first personal trainer. I can’t remember the last time that someone hired me and I was the first time that ever been with a trainer. I usually hear something more like, “Oh, I’ve had like three or four trainers before. I’ve had a trainer for five years or whatever.”
And then someone finds me after they’re sick of being misled by people. And they just appreciate the honesty, I think.
And so the video was, you know, literally, I don’t like my phone, right? And I stuck it, I put it on a plyo box, so it would look directly at me. I stood in front of a white board that was behind me at my gym and I had written on the white board, what was in the program.
So, this is not a fancy video at all. I mean, this is like a bad bargain production. I was like, this is what you get here. This is what you’re going to get. Yeah. This is what you’re going to get. This is the result of what we did when I did this in the gym. If you’re interested, comment below and I’ll be in touch, and that was pretty much the video.
Oh, yeah, definitely no high production quality.
How to attract more “rabid” fans without any sales script or fancy camera equipment
Kristy: Well, I mean sometimes you imagine, okay not high production, but they must have had the perfect script. They just know all the points to say.
Andrew: I mean, I did because the program was, I had run something like that program in my gym for years.
So, I knew exactly what would happen if you followed it. The integral program that was specific with it. We actually had run that specifically in the gym, the results were fantastic. So, I mean, I knew the program inside out. I’ve been working with it for years and years, but in terms of, you know, like polished sales scripts and all that kind of stuff, like definitely not like no lapel, no microphone or no lighting.
I just, it was really like the cheapest, most bare bones thing possible. But the difference was that the guys in that group had been following me from all of these articles that I’d written and things like that. So the guys who jumped into that group that early were rabid fans. And so, you know, like as much as it looks like it was an overnight success, I’d been writing articles online for nearly a decade at that point.
So, I mean, not so overnight after all.
How Andrew made $30k in a weekend in his 3000 sq ft gym
[10:51] Kristy: Yeah, that’s actually a good point. Because first of all, you had a group of 600 and if these were really true fans and that’s a very actually strong group to have, if versus if they’re just random people in a group, and then you had a lot of articles that they had been reading.
And before we transition to a very exciting, kind of part of your career online. I want you to tell me all your secrets. I’m going to write them down right now. Okay. But, before we get into that, I’m kind of still just a little bit curious about your gym, because I think a lot of people can relate to either it being struggling.
Not sure if that’s what they want to do or maybe they’re happy. But I think a lot can relate. Could you tell me, was it a personal training gym? Or was it like a gym floor? What kind of gym was it? And how big was it?
Andrew: So there’s about 300 square meters, which is about 300 square, sorry, 3000 square feet to the US feet, sorry. Reasonably large. I had started it. My idea was that I wanted a gym that I could move everything around so I could set it up however I wanted to on any given day. So we had no racks. We had free standing squat racks that you could move around. But, everything else was kettlebells and yeah, like all the cardio stuff, the rows and whatever, you can move them around so you can set the gym up however you want on any given day.
We would do two classes a day. So there’s a morning and an evening class except for Friday night where there was no Friday night class and there’s no Saturday night class, Sunday was a day off. And, I would do some personal training during the day, but most of the income was coming from group stuff.
And then I was also teaching for a kettle bell group called dragon doors, teaching I see stuff all around the world that was worth quite a lot of money. And I was also hosting events, like functional movement and things like that. And that was also quite lucrative as well.
Yeah, my record for hosting an event for dollars was $37,000 Australian, like about $30,000 US from a single weekend.
Yeah, my record for hosting an event for dollars was $37,000 Australian, like about $30,000 US from a single weekend.
Sorry. You know, like there were some guys like Perry Nicholson. I don’t know if you know him, but he’s quite a well known chiropractor. The first time he came to Australia, he had the biggest attendance at an event that he never had. And that was all from my marketing of the event.
He also ran for the first time ever in a two-day event. Would he be running a one day event? That was because of me. I said, your thing has to be two days, not one day. He also had a manual for the first time ever, because he’d never had a manual before. I said, “Look, man, like, if you want to go into this next. Like the price tier needs to be two days. This is how much it has to cost. You need to have a manual.”
And so that’s actually how he runs all these workshops now, but he had like a record number of 10 days. The first time he came to Australia, we had Lee Burton from FMS. There was one year. So we had that year, the only dates where he got in was Easter long weekend.
And I was a little bit panicked because you have to provide a deposit like, if the event fails, FMS is still going to get at least this much money off of me. Like I promise you’re going to get at least as many customers. So you saw it on the job line and you sent them that money. And I’m like, Oh, I used to have a long weekend.
This is a bit rough. And we’ve got like 70, 80 people to it on Easter. And then that year.
The real problem with juggling in-person and online fitness training
[14:08] Kristy: How much do people pay?
Andrew: For FMS, it’s always difficult because it’s always in US dollars and the conversion to Aussie dollars is a bit strange, but it’s usually about 12 or 1300 Aussie. And then the highest gets a percentage of that.
And later that year, though, They said that the only time he’s available, it’s like two weeks before Christmas. And it was like a Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, the two weeks before Christmas. So not even like a normal Friday, Saturday, Sunday set up. And I was like, yeah, no worries. No worries. I just got 70, 80 people.
I’m a hundred percent confident that if Lee comes and Lee’s amazing, if we get Lee back, I don’t care. If he comes on Christmas day, I’ll sell that out. And we did, we got like another 78. Yeah. It was like 77, 78 people to that one. We’d wait two weeks before Christmas. So, yeah. Was doing quite well with that stuff.
So when I looked at how the gym was, the success of it was not actually, it wasn’t on the training side. It was because I was doing all these other stuff. And over time I stopped doing so much of it. FMS changed the way their courses were being run. They became smaller. And so that side of the business started to fall away.
I had been so focused on these big ticket things that I had let the small things go away. And we got to this point where we are when the events were down to much smaller events and much fewer that the training was not strong enough.
I hired a business coach and started looking at advertising all these different things. But the real problem from my perspective now looking back was, again, I had this split focus on, I’m trying to do online. And I’m trying to do in-person and I probably had too much focus on the online stuff, even though I was saying I’m focused on in-person and it just wasn’t successful for me.
I know there are other people that can do it, but for me, I couldn’t do it.
What happens when your competition grows from 3 competing gyms to 26 competing gyms in your area?
Kristy: Yeah. It can be challenging. Just so I know some quick numbers, I’m curious, because it’s pretty expensive in New York for gyms and depending what floor you’re on, where your gym is located in Australian, is it in a big city?
Andrew: Yeah, it’s in Melbourne. So Australia is a lot different to the US in terms of the way the cities are structured. But so it was about 20 kilometers outside the CBD of Melbourne. So about what’s that like 12, 13 miles outside the CBD, in what would normally be like a kind of industrial area.
So a lot of factories and warehouses and that kind of stuff. So it was a warehouse gym in terms of the area. So, most major cities in Australia are along the beach. And so, the beach suburbs are very expensive. And so where my gym was, it was on the border of a beach suburb. If that makes sense, not in the beach suburb itself, because then rent would have been too expensive, but I was right next door to it, very close so that I could still access those customers.
But when I started, there were like three or four gyms in my area within a 10 minute drive when we finished, there were 26 or 27. So yeah and that’s fitness in general is so massively oversaturated. And in the US you might be able to get away with that, but in Australia, I mean, Melbourne has a, it’s got a decent population.
It’s roughly 5 million people. All of Australia, there’s only 25, 24 million people. So, you know, like the number of gyms and personal trainers, and it’s very difficult to stand out. And if you’re, unless you’re educated and you’ve been burnt by half a dozen people along the way, when you just look for a gym, the first thing people look for is price.
And so they would contact me and I would tell them what we charge and all this. Back then we were charging $60 a week, $66 a week. So it was like $132 a fortnight. The difference in costs though and we talked about this before we started was, you know, people going to join a big box gym, they were paying $10 a week.
And so they would look at me and say, well, how come you’re so much more expensive or the differences you’re actually going to get a result with me, but they don’t know that they, they don’t like until they’ve actually experienced no success or been injured. I don’t understand the difference in prices.
And it just got to the point with, and I had tried every trick possible. My website. I had gone through all of the introduction stuff from my website, and I had deliberately used the name of most of the other big gyms around me in the ad copy for my website.
As an example, there was a gym nearby called Star Fitness. And so I had written a sentence that said, if you want to be a superstar with fitness you would do this. So Google would pick it up and obviously realize that, Oh, I was checking keywords and things, but, I had deliberately written the stuff using people’s own copy, because if people were looking for that, then that would find me by accident as well.
And so I had done every little trick you can think of even going back to like old school things with article directories and submitting articles. Getting them spun on a thing like five bucks and ending up with like 50 articles being put on article directors, all linking back to my side, there was a whole bunch of sneaky stuff that I had done.
I was still not enough to bring in enough leads to make it worthwhile. Also, probably, definitely not as good at sales as I am now. I’m way better now. My closing percentage now for sales is like about 80%. Back then it would be more like about 10%.
Kristy: Oh, wow. Yeah. So that’s a big difference. But yeah, I mean the local gym market, it’s tricky. it’s very finite who you can market to. So, how much was the rent there?
Andrew: What the rent was, about four and a half thousand a month. Let me think, sorry, 1500 Australia is about 1,030 right now. So you’d be looking at about 3,200 or something like that.
The dark moments of owning his gym…that left him earning almost nothing, jeopardized his family life and forced him working almost everyday
Kristy: Yeah, I mean, that’s still a good amount considering that it’s not like Maine and Maine. All right. So I see the numbers and, just curious, when you say it was struggling, were you actually losing money or were you just kind of breaking even making just a little bit?
Andrew: So breaking even mostly, but yeah, you get to always like Christmas and Christmas was always this kind of period where I’d be like, okay, well, I guess I’m not doing anything fun for the next six weeks. So now our seasons are obviously different.
And schools will break out about a week before Christmas. And we have our version of 4th of July, it’s Australia Day. It’s on the 26th of January and it’s super hot in Australia. I mean, quite often, late January, early February, they will be a week where it’s over 40 degrees Celsius, which is like over 110 degrees Fahrenheit.
And, we’ll get a week straight like that usually. And so no one goes to work because it’s too hot and uncomfortable. And so basically from just before Christmas, until the end of January, no one’s training. You might have five or six people. And you know, that month was always, I’d be crazy to do something.
And the thing that was actually the catalyst, this is a weird story. I had gotten sick of it completely. Like the whole thing I’m like, I’m done. I’m going to go apply for a job. I actually had applied to be a police officer when we’re doing a big recruiting drive. And one of the things you have to do for your security clearance is go through your passport and write down all of your trips overseas for the last five years or something.
And I’ve had trips because I was teaching all around the world, as it had been to China to teach kettlebells, I’ve been to the US a number of times I’ve been to England to speak. You know what I mean? Like I had a lot of trips. But you also have to have your partner’s passport for the last five years.
And I went through her passport and she had been to a couple of different kettlebell things overseas, but we had had one holiday together and we’ve been together for seven years or eight years at that point. One holiday together in the eight years. And I just remember looking at it and thinking like, if I’m not careful, she’s going to leave.
If this is not, this is no way to have a relationship. And one of the coolest things about getting rid of the gym and going online was that, that first year we actually had a holiday together, something we hadn’t done in, you know, like really hadn’t done it at all.
And so, I mean, it’s a small thing, but it’s a, was a really big deal because I had gotten to the point where I would have staff and, you know, I would take certain classes off to have a sleepy in order to just do some business work or whatever, but my customers wouldn’t turn up when they knew I wasn’t going to be there, they wanted me, they were paying for me. And so I realized I was basically paying someone to stand in an empty gym anyway.
And so why would I bother doing that? So I just went back to running all the classes myself. So I didn’t have a business. I had a job I had to be at every damn day and it was running six days a week. And so, and if I shut down. I wasn’t gonna make any money, so people would say, “Oh, how come you don’t take any time off of your Christmas?”
And I would say, “Oh, well, you know, cause there’s some people here or whatever,” but the truth was I had to stay open. So I at least had some money coming in to help pay the rate for that month. I mean, it was just miserable.
How Andrew’s finally said goodbye to gym rents
Kristy: Yeah. Well, I can relate. I mean the gym was doing well, but then at the same time we had a lot of expenses.
So it was, you know, you just have to. Because we had a lot of staff and we would do it, but it was exhausting. So, I can relate with the whole, the challenges.
Andrew: Yeah. The expenses now, I don’t pay rent for my house. I own my house outright. So, I don’t pay anything for the house. I pay for web hosting. I pay software for training and I pay ads. So my total expenses and I got mad at my ad guy yesterday, because I said, hi man. Like my bill for the last month for ads was 800 bucks.
I was paying four and a half thousand dollars just for rent. So, you know, that’s not counting power, that’s not counting phones. And I was upset about having to pay 800 bucks for ads.
So, that money that we talked about before was, you know, like, “Hey, I made a free video and I did this. I did that. It cost me like $9 a person to service those $35,000 worth of business.” Nine dollars a person is pretty good.
The no.1 mistake the fitness industry is doing now
[24:12] Kristy: Yeah, that is pretty good. So, we get the story now, we get kind of where you come from. You’re sure to be walking through sand. I see walking through sand and you’re looking at your car and you’re looking at your bank account. You’re just thinking what is there hope. Oh God. And then, you put up this video and then it sounds really interesting.
So tell me, how is your business now? What do you do besides when we say online training? I know we talked about this a little earlier, but just so the listeners know. Do you do a program? Do you do one-on-one training? Do you do group classes online? What does it look like for you?
Andrew: Okay, so I need to frame this in how I look at the fitness industry. I think most of the fitness industry does stuff wrong. And this is a thing I got off a guy called Charles Staley and he wrote about it in terms of training. He said, you go to the gym and you see most people wasting their time in group classes.
So you should go do personal training. For instance, you see a lot of people spending time on machines, you should do free weights. So look at what the majority in the fitness industry is doing. Turn your back on them and go be the other thing. So when we look at most of the fitness industry, they do low costs, low barrier to entry and group stuff.
Choosing your business model — mass appeal at a low price point or one-on-one clients at a high price point?
Andrew: Sorry. Yeah. That’s one way to go about it. But if you understand. The way the internet works like early internet fitness businesses. And I’m going to say like Emily Skye, Kayla Itsines, like businesses bringing in like 20, $30 million a year, the way they got successful, you can’t do that now.
It doesn’t exist because the way Facebook works is different. The way Instagram works is different. The structure for how you get customers is different because you have to pay to get a customer now, like I don’t have organic reach anymore. It’s not something that really exists. I get it in my free group. That’s the only place I get it.
But on my business page, if I make a post. What, like 10% of the people might see it or something. So if I have to pay and he gets your attention, I can’t spend a hundred dollars to get you to click on my ad. If I’m selling a hundred dollar program that doesn’t make any sense at all.
If I’m doing that, I’ve been to make sure I’ve got a really strong second offer for you that actually gets me some money, right? And I’ve got to have a really good sales process to make sure you buy that thing. So most of the low ticket stuff has as well, that’s not gonna work.
And the thing I’m best at is one person, one program. So you tell me where you’re at right now. I will figure it out. You tell me what equipment you’ve got. You tell me how many injuries you’ve had.
And because we talked about 40 year old guys. There’s a lot of injuries. So my background with FMS sets me up for that. I mean, I’m present for them pretty much. I’m good at corrective exercise. Yeah. You tell me where you’re at. I’ll figure it out and I’ll write you one program.
So, when I get people that come along and they go, “Oh, well, my wife wants to train as well. Great. But I need to talk to her separately. That’s a different program.” I have a son who I train and who is training for a special forces officer and the dad is amazing. Dad’s super fit but can’t do the same program because the volume of training that the 24 year old son he’s able to handle is so much more than what the 45 year old dad is able to handle.
How he sets up his training programs to work as a sales funnel
[27:20] Andrew: So two programs, and because it’s exclusive quality, whatever, I can charge a lot for it. So even if I have to pay a hundred dollars to get your attention, I’m still gonna make money off it.
I’m not selling the program and not making any money. So that’s the first thing is like one-to-one. And about half of my customers are actually one-to-one. I’ve got at the moment, it’s exactly even. I’ve got 25, one to one guys, and I have 25 guys in a group thing. The group thing is called the pistol based challenge.
It’s a competition because guys like competing. So it’s based on who makes the most improvement over time. And it’s a little bit like a pentathlon. There’s five events and get right for not who is fastest or who lifted the most, but who made the most improvement in each event. And so the winner actually gets a cash prize, plus they get their entry back.
So the end prize is two and a half thousand dollars. So they pay the same amount as $1,500 for one to one for three months. It’s $1,500 for the group for three months. So they get the entry back plus a thousand dollars. So it’s a legit prize that’s actually worth competing for. Those 25 guys know that as well.
The group thing is, I see a lot of people say that one to one, you can only handle about 30 people at a time. I see the guys who say that they’re not terribly experienced to be honest. they clearly aren’t very good trainers. I mean, when I look at someone training because I’ve done so much of it.
I know that, “Hey, if you weigh this much, you should probably be able to lift these. You should be able to do this many pushups. Your rowing times should be this. You should be able to, you know what I mean? Like, like I know because I’ve done it with hundreds and hundreds of people in person over years and years. And I would have my normal client retention for in-person was over two and a half years.
So I would get to know my customers very well. And when you see someone say, “Oh, you can only handle this many people yourself.” No, you can. It just means you don’t have a good system in place. But what they didn’t say is you need to create like a template by stuff, which is what the personal best thing is and drive them towards that.
It’s actually about the same amount of work. If anything, the group is a little bit more work, to be honest, because you’ll get a lot more questions. You’ll get a lot more interaction. And annoyingly, you get tagged in a lot of posts. As I always feel like being tagged by a group situation. It’s like a little kid tagging on your arms saying, “Hey, I want your attention. I want your attention.”
Because that’s just another thing I have to go and look at now on Facebook, what I’m really trying to do something else over here. I’m so split between the two things. And then there’s a third thing, which is actually a low ticket thing. And the way I think about it is I don’t advertise that I’m never going to pay to advertise that it’s only a hundred dollars.
It’s a hundred US$ and it’s 28 days. It’s basically just how to live a healthy life. And so you guys actually get really amazing results from it because I go to sleep early and I eat better and actually do an amount of training that’s appropriate for their bodies instead of trying to kill themselves by trying to keep up with the CrossFit games, workout or something.
And the only reason I have that is because you need a way to go from. Here’s all my free information in my, my group. And so that group now, by the way, has gone from 600 people to about 1600. So it’s reasonably grown three times, roughly in two and a half years. Hmm. But I need them to go from the free group to actually getting used to giving me money.
And so this is just a business thing, right? So my attitude is everybody is walking around, around with my money in their pocket. And my job is to get my money out of their pocket and back into my pocket where it belongs. Right. So, I have to have something that gets them, used to pay me money and actually has a lot of interactions.
So I actually get, I would say a disproportionate amount of interaction for me in the 28 day, a hundred dollar thing. Because I want them to start to really like me and trust me. And then the goal is to get again, put a strong offering in front of them at the end of that and get them to come into it as a group thing or one-to-one or whatever.
Right. It has to be. So they give me more money.
Kristy: Hmm. Yeah, I like it.