What you’ll learn from this episode
Highlights from the interview
[04:55] – A very simple set up to get your podcast going
[06:54] – Free and inexpensive podcast software to edit your podcast
[11:48] – How to get started with your podcast interviews w/o feeling too awkward so that it goes smoothly
[13:33] – Leveraging your network to get your first few guests
[18:26] – Is it difficult to get on Spotify and Apple music?
[23:50] – Momentum & expanding your network through podcasting
About our Guest
Today on the show is Jordan Berry, the owner of Kaizen Fitness, a New Zealand based personal training company, and host of the Kaizen Fitness Show, a podcast that interviews top athletes and health experts.
At only 21 he’s built up a successful personal training business with two trainers and a massage therapist. What’s interesting is that he’s built up a successful business without having his own gym space. He and his trainers actually train out of other fitness gyms.
This is a great low risk and low cost business model for any trainer to use to initially expand their business. The challenge with these businesses is it’s not so easy to find top-notch trainers and keep them. What’s amazing about what Jordan has done is through community events, training programs for his trainers, ongoing support, and even a podcast.
In the second part of this two-part interview, Jordan shares the small but hugely impactful things he does with his trainers and his customers to create a sense of a broader brand, community and support without having a central fitness studio.
Edited transcription of Fitness Business Secrets Podcast, Episode 36
From recording music to starting his fitness business to podcast host
Kristy: So, Jordan Berry thank you for being on the show. You have a very, I would call it like a celebrity-esqueness about you, I noticed you have great hair and then I was like, he sings country or something like you have a song, I’m sorry if it’s not country.
And you have your own business and it looks like you’ve kind of traveled to beautiful places or you just live in a beautiful place, that could also be the situation. So, it’s great to have you on the show. And you also have a lot of interesting projects such as your podcast.
And so I’d just love to ask you like how things are going for you, with your podcast and your fitness business?
Jordan: Well firstly, thank you very much Kristy for having me on the show. And it sounds like you’ve done your research and yeah, I don’t know, I’m just the kind of individual that I just like to grab the basket of life with both hands and just take as much out of it as I can.
So yeah, I did write a bit of music as well as my fitness business. I do a lot of interesting projects and stuff going on, but as far as the podcast goes, I’ve always kind of had a bit of a desire to run a podcast. I enjoy talking to people, finding out about them.
But I guess a lot of business owners will feel this as well. Oftentimes, we get so stuck on the operational side of the business, you know, talking to clients, writing programs, dealing with the profit modeling, that kind of thing that sometimes we don’t give ourselves enough time to be creative.
So for those listening or watching, I’m living in New Zealand and in New Zealand, we had a lockdown period for COVID-19 that lasted about eight weeks. During that time, I had to take business online, which we’ll talk more about, but specifically for the podcast because of lockdown period, I suddenly found myself with a little bit more time on my hands.
So, instead of just focusing on the operational side of the business, I was suddenly able to go on all these creative tangents and one of those tangents happens to be, to start my own podcasts and interview some really unique and common individuals.
A very simple set up to get your podcast going
[04:55] Kristy: Oh, okay. So how old is your podcast? Did you just start it when COVID started?
Jordan: Yeah, literally, probably two weeks and so. New Zealand lockdown which off the top of my head was around May. So, yeah, probably only a couple of months old. Yeah.
Kristy: Okay. That’s really interesting. And I think that trainers sometimes are naturally great speakers because they’re used to talking and coaching a lot.
So, I think that’s something that’s interesting. A lot of trainers have thought about, but it seems like a lot of work. How much work is it to produce your podcast?
Jordan: To be honest, it’s a lot less than what people think it is. If you want a really basic model and you don’t want to spend any money, all you need is obviously a laptop and just have even your phone recording audio on your end, and then get the person who you’re recording to have their phone audio recording on the other end. You don’t need any fancy microphones.
If you do want crisper audio quality, then obviously that’s important. But if you’re just wanting to get a podcast started, all you need is some way to record audio on both ends.
You can actually use Buzzsprout for free. It doesn’t cost anything. You can pop your podcasts up on there. And then that gets distributed to Spotify, Apple music for free basically.
If you’re doing online interviews and then just a podcast hosting site, such as Buzzsprout, which is the one I use. You can actually use it for free. It doesn’t cost anything. You can pop your podcasts up on there. And then that gets distributed to Spotify, Apple music for free basically.
The only thing, the hardest thing will be the editing because you’ll have your two separate audio tracks that are from their end and your end. You do need to know a little bit about audio. I’m just saying to kind of put the tracks together and to make them sound nice, but you can do that through free software as well. So you can literally do a podcast and send it out to the world for free. It’s super easy.
Kristy: Yeah, well, that’s really exciting. Free is a good number that everyone can afford, no matter what country or currency you’re at free is good. So podcasts editing is tricky and I agree with that.
Free and inexpensive podcast software to edit your podcast
[06:54] Kristy: What kind of software do you use that’s free?
Jordan: I personally use logic, which is not free. But because I’m really into my music, I use that to edit my music. So I guess I’m fortunate in that regard that I do know how to edit audio together. So I use Logic, but you can use free software such as Audacity. It’s A U D A C I T Y. Really, you can just pop the audio tracks into there and then just tinker around with it.
And obviously we love and the great agent YouTube that you can just look on YouTube if you get stuck. So Audacity is free software that you can use to edit your podcast or your work.
Kristy: Yeah, it is good. And we do use Audacity most of the time. So, I agree, that’s a great software, definitely free and robust enough to do your podcast.
How about recording? I know you mentioned you can use your phone. Have you done that or doesn’t that cause quality issues though? I mean, it could work though. I’m not saying you can’t do that.
Jordan: Yeah. I mean, it’s very grassroots. So also during lockdown, I could not speak face to face with my interviewees. Some of them did have audio recording equipment on the areas like they had Rode microphones. On my end, I do have a microphone that I use for my singing, my music. But I do also use the power mics.
But yeah, for a lot of the podcasts interviews you’ll hear that I’d do, my interviewee is just literally got the memo or they’re recording things, sit on their phone and just angled up kind of at the mouth and it actually picks up pretty good audio. I mean, a lot of the smartphones in this day and age have like really good quality. So, the audio you’re getting is bearable. You can listen to it. It may only need a little bit of altering in the processing side of things for it to come out okay.
Free online software to record your podcast’s audio and video
Kristy: Yeah. And what software did you say you used to do the phone call recording?
Jordan: So, I usually use Google Hangouts and that’s for the video. And then I use, like a video screen capturing software that will capture the picture. And then I’ll just have a video camera set up. But recently I’ve just been doing audio recordings as opposed to video as well, because the video takes a lot longer and it wasn’t given the same amount of traction.
Kristy: Yeah. I was going to ask you about that part. I noticed you have some great video clips on your Instagram, and they all look really well put together. So, is it mainly you editing them?
Jordan: Yeah, I’m doing all of that video editing myself. I did have a marketer content creator on board, helping me more with the social media side of things, but all of the podcasts I’ve purely done myself.
So, in order to edit the videos, I use the software called Filmora, which does cost as well, but you can use Windows Moviemaker or iMovie to produce similar results.
But yeah, obviously I had a lot more free time during lockdown, so I had time to kind of tinker and spend hours and hours stuffing up and going through things to work out how it all works.
Kristy: Yeah. For Filmora I don’t think that one’s too expensive. Do you know how much it costs for basic users?
Jordan: Yeah. So, all of the processes that I say in this podcast, by the way, are all going to be in New Zealand dollars, just cause that’s the currency I use. But at the top of my head that was 99 New Zealand dollars, which works out to be about 63 USD.
Kristy: Okay. All right. Thanks. Yeah. Roughly 63.92. That’s pretty good. Okay. So 63, is that a month or just flat to buy it?
Jordan: That’s a one off cost and then you’ve got the software on your computer. So it’s actually very reasonably priced and you can do quite a lot on it.
How to keep editing time for a podcast to only 20 minutes
Kristy: Okay. That’s pretty good. So, if someone is thinking, “Okay, I want to try this. It looks like it’s doable. But how much time does it take for you to let’s say produce one podcast, and let’s say it’s just audio?
Jordan: For one podcast, initially it might take you a couple of hours just to learn the systems and everything, but once you’ve got everything on track and you’ve got a bit of a system, it could take you about 20 minutes.
Kristy: Oh, wow. Okay. So, 20 minutes to kinda edit it. Nice. How long are your podcast usually?
Jordan: Between 40 minutes to an hour. So, generally this is a one thing I’ve picked up recently. During the conversation, if there’s times where I stuff up or they stuff up, or they want to redo something, I’ll write a note on a bit of paper to say when the timer is.
So that I don’t have to spend ages going through the whole podcast, trying to work out where I need to cut it out. So when we need to cut something out, I’ll have a look at the time the podcast is at and then write a quick note saying edit at this part. Once I’ve done those then the rest is all good. So, you’re being very proactive at the times that you don’t have to go back through and try and work out exactly where you need to cut things up.
How to get started with your podcast — without feeling too awkward
[11:48] Kristy: That’s a really good tip. Is there any other tip you have for someone thinking to start their own fitness podcast or health podcast?
Jordan: Yeah, I think start with people that you’re familiar with initially, because there will be a couple of things you have to iron out, how to best do your introduction. How they kind of develop rapport with the person early on and just how to structure and listen to questions. If you kind of go straight off the bat and go to someone that you’re really unfamiliar with, then it can be like a really uncomfortable situation, particularly if they’re not used to being interviewed and you’re not used to doing the interviewing.
So for the first few podcasts, start with people that you know or know of that you’re comfortable with. Because it just makes the journey a little bit more effortless in the early stages to become one.
How to make sure your podcast interview goes smoothly even with the many technical steps
Kristy: Yeah. That’s a really good point. And so you’re not so intimidated or technical issues.
Jordan: Yeah. That’s a big one. Okay. Yeah. So that’s a good point, actually. I’m glad you raised that one Kristy. So, when I was doing the video as well, it was about five different things. I had to make sure we’re recording at once. And I always used to forget what I had. So before I’d start the podcast, I’d have a bit of paper saying turn on my microphone, turn on screen recorder, because otherwise I’d forget one of them.
And then halfway through I’ve just got this sinking feeling, thinking like I forgot something. Yeah, that’s right. It happened once. So to make sure, I had a bit of a checklist of all the things I had to make sure we’re working in operational prior to going with the interview.
Kristy: Yeah. So you kind of have a checklist, that’s a really good point. I mean, people don’t really realize, although there’s technology it’s still not super there where it’s one click, you kind of have to click a bunch of things.
Jordan: Yeah. Exactly.
Leveraging your network to get your first few guests
[13:33] Kristy: Yeah. How about your interviews? I noticed you have some really interesting interviews. I’m sure, you know a lot of famous people, I don’t, but what was your process to get them to be on your show?
Jordan: So, my marketer and content creator, who I had on at the time knew quite a few people. Now you have to understand this about new Zealand’s, there’s like one degree of separation. Everyone knows someone famous. So as soon as your group of friends or your members know that you’re starting a podcast, they’ll be like, “Oh, I know this person who’s really well known in New Zealand. I know this person.” So before we had a couple of national champions, a road champion on the show.
We had all these really interesting people. So, I’m guessing it’s a little bit different in the States being a much larger country, but in New Zealand, everyone kind of knows everyone. So it’s pretty easy to make connections. And after Tom, we just got people, you know, messaging me, wanting to be on the show.
So it kind of built momentum and people just wanted to be on and we kind of just waited them out based on what kind of value they can give to the people who are listening.
Kristy: Yeah. So, you basically started to build up a network and it filled up momentum.
Jordan: Yeah. And it’s just asking, like, I’ll have a list of people that I want to get in touch with, and then I’ll just hound them on Instagram or email. If they are kind of more famous or harder to reach, just keep hounding them until you get a response of some kind. Because most of the time we set limitations and we think, “Oh, this person’s never going to get back to me.” And if you don’t message them. Yeah, of course. They’re never going to get back to you. So yeah, just don’t get any inhibition and just reach out, there’s been a lot of big celebrities with me, huge followers on Instagram that I’ve messaged and they’ve replied, then it’s been a personal response.
So, a lot of people are actually a lot more accessible than what I think we realize.
How to get a professional sounding Intro and music for your podcast
Kristy: Well, that’s inspiring. And even for me, I mean, I get intimidated. So I think it’s good to know.
So, I was listening to clips, but I didn’t get to listen to the beginning. Do you have an intro that you use and you know, you have a voice, so how do you create an intro?
Jordan: So again, it comes down to my passion with music. I’ve actually recorded like a jingle which goes at the start of my podcast. And then I just do a voiceover, that’s pretty corny and cheesy, but you know, that will do.
Kristy: Oh, okay. Do you have any recommendations for somebody who wants to record a podcast and usually it’s sort of those fancy parts, the intro of the guy talking, or the music, then they’re like, “I don’t even know how I would do that.” Do you have any suggestions for them?
So, you can download royalty free soundtrack or a jingle. They can go at the start of your podcast so that you have like a theme song, if you like.
Jordan: If you’re after music, there’s plenty of websites you can go to where you can download royalty free music, which basically means that you’re in no danger of breaching anyone’s copyright privileges.
So, you can download royalty free soundtrack or a jingle. They can go at the start of your podcast so that you have like a theme song, if you like. And then if you’ve got some reasonable audio recording equipment, then you can just do voice over as part of that as well.
But again, if you’re just starting out, don’t spend heaps of time on these little things that will develop over time. If you look at some really good podcasts like Tim Ferris, Tony Robbins, the intros change all the time. So don’t let that make or break you from starting up your podcasts. It will come with time. Just like the rest of your expertise and skills. So, just get your stuff out there just start building up a repertoire, just start building up a library of podcasts.
Why should just get started even if you don’t feel like it’s perfect
Kristy: Yeah, that’s true. Just get started. And I spent some time thinking and thinking about name and design and then a friend reminded me, we can actually even change the title of our podcast and the thumbnail. So, if you ever felt like you needed to change even the direction of what you talk about, that’s okay too.
Jordan: That’s a really good point. And that’s something that you won’t discover until you’ve done multiple podcasts, because initially when you go out, you will have a direction set in your head and then you interview a few people and then suddenly your podcast has actually taken a different direction.
So, it’s important to know that your podcast very much will change direction. And yes, as you said, you always have complete control over the look of your podcast, introductions, the direction it goes.
And so the saying that goes paralysis by overanalysis, and this can apply to any part of life. Sometimes when we wants to start something new, we become so paralyzed by all the information we need to know, all of the things we needed to do, that it actually paralyzes us from taking action.
So, in the case of a podcast, make it super simple to start recording people, start getting contents out. I assure you, you eventually start to hone your craft.
Is it difficult to get on Spotify and Apple music?
[18:26] Kristy: Nice. So, that actually is a great transition to my next question, which is what was your initial thoughts going into it since you know it would be some investment. And where are you now with your perspective on your podcast?
Jordan: I was very gung ho about it. I just thought I just want to start a podcast and I knew of friends who would podcast really well. She’s a founder of a skin care business here in New Zealand and I just said, “Do you want to be on our first podcast?” And she said yes. The setup up was minimum. I didn’t think about it so much. I just got straight into it and we recorded our conversation. It took me a little while to work out the editing initially. But we released our podcast. I looked at a few videos online on how to host it on Spotify and Apple music, how to get it in front of people. Turns out it’s far easier than what people imagine.
Some people are like, “Oh man, you’re on Spotify!” And it’s like, yeah, it’s actually way easier than what you think. So, just a little bit of research, look at a couple of videos, see what site you want to host your podcast on, but then just find people to interview.
And yeah, as I said, there will be glitches, there will be parts that don’t run so smoothly. So, just to give you peace of mind, do it with people that you’re comfortable with.
Kristy: Yeah. And when you started your podcast, since I know you have quite a health angle on it, and I think you put your brand on it to your fitness company. So, was it just, “I want to start a podcast because I have that desire to talk and share,” or was it sort of like, “Well, I also think it’ll be worth the time because people will find me and want to train with me?”
Jordan: Both of those reasons. Yeah. So one, selfishly it’s for my own benefit, I get to talk to some really cool people and learn some cool stuff. But secondly, and most importantly, it was more just to be able to provide some other content for my members.
If you’re interviewing people have a bit of a following, then you can leverage off their following. And just like we’re going to be doing, I’m going to be sharing this podcast and interview and you’ll be sharing that on your social media.
If you’re interviewing people have a bit of a following, then you can leverage off their following. And just like we’re going to be doing, I’m going to be sharing this podcast and interview and you’ll be sharing that on your social media.
So, all of a sudden you’re suddenly exposing your business and your brand to lot of other people. From purely a marketing exposure point of view, podcasts are really important particularly now they are gaining in popularity. A lot of people are now becoming too busy to sit down and watch a video, but people have the time to listen to a podcast while they’re vacuuming or while they’re at the gym.
So, podcasts are not an untapped market because they are becoming quite populated now, but definitely a market that will give your business good exposure and exposure to people that wouldn’t necessarily see your business otherwise.
The time investment and return of video versus the time investment and return of podcasting — which is better?
Kristy: Yeah, I totally agree. And for me, I was doing a lot of videos and then I did some podcast audio, but I read this article that really made me feel that I needed to double down on podcasts, which was in a sense, we’re asking less of the listener because we’re asking less of their attention. So, we’ll get more of their time in a way, because they can do other things instead of having to watch the video. So, yeah, I think it may seem like it’s less than a video, but for some people it’s better than a video.
Jordan: I totally agree with that. From an editing point of view, audio is more easier as well. So you’ve got to think if you are putting in the time and effort to produce video content, you’ve got to make sure it’s actually worth it and people are consuming it.
And that’s what we found with our videos is that I was putting in a lot of time which was fine but they weren’t getting the same kind of traction as the audio.
And personally for me, I just find it easier to go to the gym, to go for a run. I can put my earpods in and listen to a full hour long podcast and not have to skip through it.
Whereas if you’re just kind of sitting there watching a video, particularly with our attention span we are like, “Oh, what’s this video? What’s this video?”
How often would you sit through like a 50 to an hour long video on YouTube? So, that’s the question you have to ask yourself and ask your market. Do you think they’ll be willing to do that, or do you think they’d prefer simply to engage with the audio that you produce?
Kristy: Yeah. That’s really interesting. And then actually you mentioned numbers and engagement and that veering you towards being more audio. Tell me what your numbers are or how you gauge a listener, is it a download? Is it a play? Or how do you gauge that?
Jordan: Mostly through people I talk to that will say if they’ve listened or if they’ve watched. And predominantly, we got more feedback from people that have listened to our podcasts. Also through the statistics that you get through Buzzsprout or whatever provider you choose to host your podcast with, it will tell you how many downloads and stuff. We’ve got a very modest number of downloads, but it was still slightly more than the video content that we’re getting.
And again, it comes down to that kind of return on time aspect, if you’re spending so much longer on the video, but not really getting the same engagement out of it, then it’s probably not a good use of your time.
Kristy: Yeah. I completely agree. Video is 20X longer to do, to produce something that you might be proud of, that I might be proud of. And then audio is much less, but somehow it kind of gets more traction.
Jordan: Yeah. Definitely.
Momentum & Expanding your network through podcasting
[23:50] Kristy: What have you found right now? Have you found that you’ve gotten any benefits for your business with the podcast?
Jordan: Benefits to the business, I guess, tangibly not currently, but I am aware that again, it’s kind of a process of momentum. The more we put podcasts out, we haven’t actually put any podcasts out for probably about three weeks, but the more you keep that momentum going, the more it will grow.
But I treat my podcasts more as, well, it’s a great marketing tool, obviously, but that’s a real passion as well. I just love talking to people. So, we’re not really saying as much business growth from that avenue. But I think if we were to invest more time on it and as the time goes by and we interview more people, I think we will see more traction coming through there.
But just through doing podcasts, I’ve been able to talk to a lot of people. I’ve met some really interesting people and sometimes it’s through the people that will actually directly help with the business because they may have a really good idea for health and fitness, or they may know someone who can help you.
So, sometimes it’s actually through the guests that you’re talking with that provide the greatest insight and help your business, as opposed to the people you’re reaching with the podcast.
Kristy: Yeah. So it sounds like you’re really quickly able to expand your network with really interesting people, through a couple of weeks in quarantine with your podcasts.
Jordan: Yeah, definitely. Yup. There’s a New Zealand triathlete I was talking to a few weeks ago and we just connected like that. And because of that, we’re going to be doing some really cool kind of adventure stuff together.
I was interviewing a lady last Monday and talking about suicide prevention, mental health. And through that connection, we could potentially help some people with just speaking out and being a little bit more open about how they’re feeling. Because New Zealand has a very stoic society. So, we’re certainly able to add more value to the lives of our members. And that’s what it all boils down.
So people will obviously more happily engage with your product if it’s setting value to their lives.
Ready to be a podcast host? Just get started
Kristy: Yeah. I like it. All right. So, as we wrap up on the podcast topic and producing this podcast, do you have any other tips for anyone thinking about starting a podcast?
Jordan: Any other tips? The biggest one I can say is just go for it. I do know a couple of individuals who said they want to do a podcast and then have never got around to it purely by the fact that they get overwhelmed by the amount they have to do.
So, just write a clear plan of what you need to do. And how are you going to get there. And if you write it down and visualize it, it’s so much easier. And also create a list of the people that you want to get on your podcast and don’t let your limitations stop you. Think about who you’d want to get on your show. Do you want to get, you know, a president on your show? Do you want to get, you know, like a celebrity?
Don’t let anything stop you from reaching out to those people. Because you never know, particularly during lockdown, you may find that people may have more time. So, create a little bit of a list of people you want to talk to and think about the kind of things you want to get out of your podcast.
But the biggest piece of advice is just get started. Just start creating content, no matter how crappy you think it is.
It’s all about starting to login to Google, login to Spotify. All of these entries start to build up your brand presence, your brand awareness that you can slowly tinker over time, but just start getting content out there.
Kristy: Yeah, I like that. So, basically make that dream list of guests go, after them and just start recording and slowly add your podcast to different platforms.